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I'm a simple man, not a simpleton. The worst thing any of our leaders can do is to get those two things confused. I'm a warrior for those things I believe in. I stand up for my friends, family, God, and country. All I truly want is for the government to stay as far out of my life as I can get it. Oh and just in case you haven't guessed it; I'm conservative in my bones.


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Tuesday, December 9, 2008

In Defense (afore hand) of Revolt

Let's, just for a moment, pretend that our worst case scenarios about the upcoming president all comes true. It is now 3 years later and Barry has instituted his new health care policies, raised taxes on business both small and large, and instituted all of his social reform policies, such as the civilian defense force and the Fairness Doctrine.

He has come into our homes and taken law abiding citizens' weapons and imposed limits on the cars that we can now build or buy in America. If all these things come pass, then the complete collapse of the American economy is imminent.

Now you hear of riots and assassinations of elected officials and left wing pundants. The revolution has begun!

Now for the question of the day? With the above hostile actions from the government, are we justified in overthrowing our current government and restarting our republic?

My personal opinion is, yes. And our founders thought so too. For instance, here's a couple of quotes I came across that I thought were particularly apropos:

James Wilson (a signer of the Declaration and the Constitution, an original Justice on the U. S. Supreme Court and the father of the first organized legal training in America), explained in to his law students more about defensive rights:
I here close my examination into those natural rights, which, in my humble opinion, it is the business of civil government to protect, and not to subvert, and the exercise of which it is the duty of civil government to enlarge, and not to restrain. . . . The defence of one’s self, justly called the primary law of nature, is not, nor can it be abrogated by any regulation of municipal law. This principle of defence is not confined merely to the person; it extends to the liberty and the property of a man: it is not confined merely to his own person; it extends to the persons of all those, to whom he bears a peculiar relation – of his wife, of his parent, of his child, of his master, of his servant: nay, it extends to the person of every one, who is in danger, perhaps, to the liberty of every one, whose liberty is unjustly and forcibly attacked. It becomes humanity as well as justice. . . . As a man is justified in defending, so he is justified in retaking, his property, or his peculiar relations, when from him they are unjustly taken and detained. . . . This long investigation concerning natural rights and natural remedies, I conclude by answering the question, with which I introduced it: Man does not exist for the sake of government, but government is instituted for the sake of man.

Patrick Henry - 03/23/1775
"Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death"
"Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!...
"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace [Jer. 6:14]. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle [Matt. 20:6]? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"


Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

12 10 08

Watch out. The thought police might get you for subversive thoughts...

Besides that, you are so pissed at Obama that you aren't adequately placing blame on our current administration either. They have royally screwed up and if we are honest about it, it wouldn't matter who the President is because the executive branch has gotten out of control ala Bush and there's no denying that. I don't believe in giving up my liberties even if we are in wars. You cannot sacrifice liberty in wartime otherwise you end up in a depostic situation...

Greywolfe said...

Oh I fully agree that the Bush administration has been a nightmare. He labeled himself a "compassionate conservative" when what he was,was a democrat lite rino. As for the giving up of liberties part... I don't think I've seen anything in any paper where a U.S. citizen was charged for anything domestically, using the patriot act.

I will refer you back to Pres. Lincoln (who many people refer to as the best president in history), who, during a national emergency period suspended habeas corpus during wartime and on into reconstruction.

But your point as to where the current blame lies is well put. However, a lame duck president can only do so much damage. The next 4 years is what has me scared spitless.

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

12 10 08

I agree with you here and I am scared of what Obama will do to our economy. I don't understand how his team of Harvard experts are pushing so much governmental regulation and taking our tax dollars without our input to bail out these companies. We are headed down socialist waters and that bothers me a great deal. We as American citizens have now lost say over how our dollars are spent and don't seem to have any recourse at all! The other issue is that Obama said that job creation trumps federal deficit issues. Yeah flippin right! He is going to drive us further into debt and we very well may face bankruptcy as a nation unless this deficit spending is addressed. He spoke of change, but all I see is the same old Clintonista garbage, imho. Not to mention he appointed a guy from the FED to oversee some financial orgs within the government. That is like putting a wolf in a chicken coop! Again, I HOPE he brings about CHANGE I can stomach.

As to gun rights, I am with you 100% It does seem as though a leftist would try to remove our second amendment rights, but thats okay you don't have to report your ownership...As to econmic rights, that is even scarier. With the Dem Congress and Obama as President, I strongly believe that we will have less economic choices because the government will get all up in businesses. They will tell businesses when to jump and how high and who they can trade with and who they cannot. Obviously we have a real problem. And I am sorry I misjudged your position. Thanks for clarifying.

As to the Patriot Act, whether or not any American has been charged under it is not the point. The point is that it is a law on the books. If you ever read the Hitchhikers Guide series, you would see that this is how Earth was destroyed. The dolphins warned humanit of the impending destruction but they put the warning in a basement of some bureaucratic building that no one used or visited. The Patriot Act is scary to me for precisely that reason, which is that it may not be enforced very often but it still is on our books.

BTW I hated that Lincoln recinded habeus corpus and disagree completely with that decision. He felt he needed to do that, but it is something that I see no justification for whatsoever. We talk about oppressive regimes but we become these regimes when we usurp liberty of our citizens.

Greywolfe said...

Mahndisa, I love your posts here. Well thought out and 99% of the time, dead bang on. So, I'll put my question to you directly. At what point would you, realizing that we have lost control of our government, be willing to say, "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and take up a weapon to take back and reset the great experiment? What would that trigger be for you?

BTW, I'm fully aware that the FBI or some other agency crawls the web looking for certain topics of discussion and I have no doubt that I have a deeper file due to this web site. Personally, I love the idea.

Greywolfe said...

And as for your Hitchiker's guide reference... That is a series that I've always meant to read but never got to. But it does amaze me how art reflects real life. Have you read The Sword of Truth series? It takes a look at the struggle between liberalism and Conservatism to the Nth degree and shows the overriding evil that is inherant in Socialism. You should read the books. They are by Terry Goodkind. There are some brutal parts but it's a pretty well thought out take on politics today in a lot of ways.

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

12 10 08

No, GW I haven't read those books but will check them out as I have the time. Thx for the suggestion. As to taking up arms, I am an avid proponent of gun rights.

You are asking about when I might think it is time to outright rebel against the government. Well, I say that you will know if and when that time comes. In the meantime, take your weapons and start polishing them and make sure there is no dirt or sand stuck in the firing mechanisms. Hehhehe! And are you right that radical change needs to occur in our government? Of course. How we get there needs to occur along a multi prongred front. Just as some use the rules of law to fix the system from within, others take to other means. Think Fight Club and blowing up the Transunion building! And that is all I can say about that for now. I gotta get away from this computer so have a great rest of day:)

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

Well said. The very fact that the Framers began the Constituion with , "We the people," and ended the Bill of Rights with the 10th Amendment stating that all powers not written in the Constitution went to the people, proves that it is not only Constitutional for us to change our government if not happy with it but our responsibility as citizens in making Washington accountable!

Z said...

Good conversation going on here..thanks.

I've thought a LOT about the revolt idea...I just keep wondering how much it will take when conservatives see everything taken from us and we're still sitting by doing nothing...particularly when Obama starts appointing Supreme Court judges we'll be stuck with for YEARS, it's nerve wracking to think of a man who admitted to LITMUS TESTS (remember when the Republican judges were admonished they could NEVER have any litmus test!?) which would inform his choices...they won't be OUR litmus tests, I assure you...then what?

And, what if he DOES implement the 20,000 strong civilian corps to watch over our cuontry...has he never heard of the Nat'l GUARD?

And so there he is...arming 20000 legally and trying to take OUR guns away...

and, meanwhile, we type and type our indignation. BIG WHOOP.

This country's VERY divided and I fear we could face big problems,,HUGE problems from WITHIN..and that terrorists are licking their chops.

Greywolfe said...

Wow. Thanks to all of you for your additions to this conversation. I must admit that I had not expected the overwhelming support on this subject.

Here's the thing; I don't think that what I put at the first of this post is fiction, but more of a prognostication. I wish that my record for being correct when it comes to political winds was a little less reliable but so far, I fear that I have only been a bit optimistic in what is coming.

I fear that our ability to have our discussions without government monitoring is going to come to a close within the next couple of years. Whether it's a result of some addition to the coming legislation concerning the "fairness doctrine" or some other attack on the freedom of speech, I know not. Only that I see it coming.

Let me be clear. I do see a time when the thoughts that we post here will be used as proof of sedition or at the very least some form of hate crime. The evidence won't have to be convincing, merely circumstantial. If that time happens, I pray to God in Heaven that he has mercy on you and yours. From that time on, it will no longer be a time of writing of our angst and trying to motivate the populace in it's votes.

I have asked each of you, "what is your trigger? What would you have to lose in order for you to forsake your safety and launch yourself in the attempt to re-establish our nation as it was meant to be.

Here is mine: When the government tries to take away my right to defend myself from it's possible tyrrany, or to in any way inhibit my ability to pursue my Rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, by limiting my speach or further retarding the ability of law abiding citizens to have fair and honest elections, I will then feel that it is necessary to invoke the opening words in the Declaration of Independance. When my government ceases to have the good of the Union at in it's heart and begins to put the good of other countries before us, then I will then consider the government to be in open revolt and in a state of treason against the Constitution.

When these things happen, I will then take up my arms, and whether alone or with company, make war on those that have abandoned our soul as a nation. I have said in the past that extremism in defense of a righteous cause is not extreme. It is a duty. My war would not be with innocents. It would be a deadly conflict between myself and those in office whether "elected" or "appointed" that would either end with a renewal of our government or my death. For I will not live in a country that will have forsaken the thousands of souls that have paid the price of our freedoms and our values as a Christian nation.

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

Just wanted to let you know that I have posted my Blog of the Month and as I mentioned to you earlier you are this months spotlight. Keep up the great conservtive work!

Ducky's here said...

Well Oklahoma patriot, I notice you censor.

Not surprising. Dishonest and cowardly like a protestant right winger.

Greywolfe said...

Yes, ducky I do sometimes decide that what is offered is not worth posting. I've said before that your assertions are shortsighted and I'll go a little farther, they're asinine. So yes, sometimes as the benevolent dictator here, I do sometimes discard the rubish that comes from idiots. It leaves more room to read from those that would like to make a rational argument. If you keep things rational your points will make it on here. Feel free to try to re-write your opinions in ways that won't cause me to wrap my head in grey tape to avoid my head exploding.

Greywolfe said...

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth, thanks for the honor. I do appreciate your recognition. I must admit that I write from my heart as things pop into my mind and sometimes what pours from my heart scares even me when I re-read it. But I mean every word I put on here. Again, thanks.

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Greywolfe said...

ducky, I'm leaving your post up for 24 hrs. Just so everyone will know exactly why your posts get ganked. You're an idiot without any respect for those that have any depth in their soul and take a stand on any principle other than narcisism.

Do yourself a favor and try real hard to grow up. Just for the record, from this point forward, unless you have a reasoned argument, your posts will not be accepted. You've apparently got an I.Q. that is rated somewhere between sheep dip, Camel spit, and hockey pucks. Why don't you try and think something through and come up with something other than a knee-jerk attack on people that you obviously don't understand?

Once again. Any non-reasoned comments will not be tolerated. Honest debate is encouraged, however, not one comment of yours on ANY blog I follow, points to the possibility that you are even interested in an exchange of ideas. In such an exchange you have to be willing to defend your point of view, rationally. If you cannot, then your point of view is not worth accepting.

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